Register Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Lexikon

Registered:
Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #1 
"Women can do anything that the boys can do! And do it better! And do it in heels!"

-Barack Obama


As we fight for Social Justice, we must remember to never exclude people.

Men have been discriminated against through many ways. Men often have the burden of needing to take care of their families through a paycheck. Men have to act a certain way without being made fun of. Men are more likely to get longer prison time for the same crime. Men are not trusted around children which is why elementary school teachers are disproportional female. And Men's domestic violence is not taken very seriously.

Feminists have sought to bring equality, and did a fairly good job in the past. However, many of their programs have harmed men by giving women an upper hand.

Today, more women are going into college and getting degrees. They are making more people in the work force, and are receiving higher pays. Society often is easier on women and their choices, but men have to fit their gender role or be marginalized.

Men's rights  issues are laughed at or downplayed by feminists and many other groups. MRAs are nearly non-existent withing left-wing and progressive groups leaving Libertarians and Right Wing Populists to address these issues.

I think the Justice Party should take a stand and address these issues in its platform. 

With Liberty and Justice for All.







Quote:
But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than previously thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small areas like the Raleigh-Durham region and Charlotte in North Carolina (both 14% more), and Jacksonville, Fla. (6%).

"Too many fathers are missing–missing from too many lives and too many homes. Children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and are more likely to commit crime, drop out of school, abuse drugs, and end up in prison. We need more fathers to realize that responsibility does not end at conception. We need them to understand that what makes a man is not the ability to have a child–it’s the courage to raise one. We will support fathers by providing transitional training to get jobs, removing tax penalties on married families, and expanding maternity and paternity leave. We will reward those who are responsibly supporting their children by giving them a tax credit and we will crack down on men who avoid child support payments and ensure those payments go directly to families instead of bureaucracies"

-Democratic Party 2008 Platform.

__________________
"The legitimacy of a state rests upon its claim to do justice"- ALAN RYAN

"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can- GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
JoshuaBudden

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 89
Reply with quote  #2 
I agree. ALL form of discrimination and prejudice need addressed.  
CChilds

Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #3 
There's a reason there isn't a more widespread Men's Rights presence in this country: just like everything else that comes from the fringes of our politics it's based on skewed statistics, lies, and outright hatred.  It's a smokescreen for the real issue, which not only explains all the numbers you've pointed out but explains it better than the non-existent anti-male discrimination you're talking about: increased poverty rates, particularly after the economic collapse in 2008.  It's a wedge being employed against the poor attempting to con YOU into voting against your interests and perpetuate control of our political system by the corporate duopoly.
Lexikon

Registered:
Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
non-existent anti-male discrimination you're talking about

Sorry if I offend, but you're kidding me right? Affirmative action isn't discrimination? Lower standards for women in the police and fire departments isn't discrimination? Scholarships that only apply to women are not discrimination?

Tell me why then many feminists keep talking about patriarchy and the wage gap if men are the hardest hit due to poverty and the recession? Why do feminists also refuse to open domestic violence shelters to men?




__________________
"The legitimacy of a state rests upon its claim to do justice"- ALAN RYAN

"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can- GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
CChilds

Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #5 
No, no, and no.  Also, let's not even discuss the wage gap.  I think it's, in general, an inaccurate portrayal of the progress of equal rights because it's a composite of so many unrelated variables, but the reason I brought it up in your post was because you were mis-representing information you were citing.  I find that to be far more objectionable than anything else you've said.

As for the women's shelters thing, that's just as much a mental health issue as it is a domestic violence issue.  Besides, in case you didn't notice in that article, the guy who filed that lawsuit was referred to a different organization setup for male victims of domestic violence.  As such, it's not that male resources are non-existent, it's that this guy is just looking for an excuse to sue someone.  Men and women should be treated equally under the law, not identically.  Treating men and women exactly the same way would be inherently unfair to one group or the other because men and women are different both physically and psychologically.
Lexikon

Registered:
Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Besides, in case you didn't notice in that article, the guy who filed that
lawsuit was referred to a different organization setup for male victims of
domestic violence.
 
We don't know if those programs had similar services and whatnot.
 
Quote:
As such, it's not that male resources are non-existent, it's that this guy is just looking for an excuse to sue someone.
 
Male DV shelters are very rare, the resources might not have been looking for, and in case you didn't notice, the source was p-r-e-t-t-y biased and would have spun the story in their favor.
 
But even if, he was just look to sue, it doesn't excuse sexism.
 
Quote:
Men and women should be treated equally under the law, not
identically. 
 
Wrong. No individual should be treated identically to another unless they are similar enough. Don't generalize entire groups.
 
Quote:

Treating men and women exactly the same way would be inherently unfair to
one group or the other because men and women are different both physically and psychologically.
 
But treating them different from the start is also inherently unfair.

__________________
"The legitimacy of a state rests upon its claim to do justice"- ALAN RYAN

"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can- GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
CChilds

Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexikon
Quote:
Men and women should be treated equally under the law, not
identically. 
 
Wrong. No individual should be treated identically to another unless they are similar enough. Don't generalize entire groups.
If you deny that men have manparts and women have ladyparts then this discussion is not going to go anywhere.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexikon
Quote:

Treating men and women exactly the same way would be inherently unfair to
one group or the other because men and women are different both physically and psychologically.
 
But treating them different from the start is also inherently unfair.
Except it isn't.  Treating them different and fairly is completely within the realm of possibility because it really needs to go without saying that they are different.
Lexikon

Registered:
Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #8 

Quote:
If you deny that men have manparts and women have ladyparts then this discussion
is not going to go anywhere.

 

Really? I mean, really? Make a real argument.

 

Quote:
Except it isn't.  Treating them different and fairly is completely within the realm of possibility because it really needs to go without saying that they are different.

 

And you don't state what those differences are besides "Herp durp vagina!!1!1!!#!!! Durp!!"

 

 

I know that in your little mind you probably wants to deny people services they want based on certain phenotypical expressions, but not everyone wants that.


__________________
"The legitimacy of a state rests upon its claim to do justice"- ALAN RYAN

"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can- GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
CChilds

Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #9 
Differences in brain size and structure, differences in muscuo-skeletal structure, differences in rates of growth, differences in typical hormone levels, differences in common medical issues, not to mention all the constructed differences that society creates between them.

Yeah, vaginas too.  Considering how expensive medical support for child birth is nowandays, that's actually a pretty important difference.  If you want to educate yourself on the other stuff, then google is an appropriate option: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=scientific+studies+on+the+differences+between+women+and+men
cscot

Registered:
Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #10 
Just seeing the words, Discrimination against Men" made me cringe.
I'll be glad to discuss this once the ERA becomes law.

Lexikon

Registered:
Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #11 

Screw the ERA, it does nothing for homosexual rights.

Quote:
Opponents claim that the ERA would require government to permit same-sex marriage, but the U.S. Supreme Court has never defined discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation as a form of sex-based discrimination. The Defense of Marriage Act currently prohibits the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages and denies federal benefits to spouses in such marriages.


Idiotic cavers. Fuk you.

http://www.now.org/issues/economic/cea/faq.html

Also, it does barely anything for what we already have with the 14th amendment, 1964 Civil Rights Act, blah, blah, blah. I don't see the point of excluding sexual minorities in this bill considering the same reactionaries that enjoy sexism probably enjoy homophobia and transphobia and vice versa.

 Support ENDA instead.

Quote:
Differences in brain size and structure, differences in muscuo-skeletal structure, differences in rates of growth, differences in typical hormone levels, differences in common medical issues, not to mention all the constructed differences that society creates between them.

 
For every individual? Um no. Hormones affect different people differently, each person has different amount, different experiences, ect. You can't justify discrimination.
 
Quote:

Considering how expensive medical support for child birth is nowandays, that's actually a pretty important difference.


Dafuq does this have to do with domestic violence? If you want women to be paying the same rate for insurance, than keep petitioning for UHC.

Quote:

If you want to educate yourself on the other stuff, then google is an appropriate option: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=scientific+studies+on+the+differences+between+wo men+and+men


Ooh, first link!

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/01/20/get-over-it-men-and-women-are-from-the-same-planet/

Quote:
There is something about avidly trying to prove men and women are different, or the same, that makes people lose their mind a bit.  No matter how much some want it to be true, it is just not that simple; there are no clear cut and easy answers to why we do what we do, and why men and women sometimes have problems getting along. To ignore the enormous wealth of data on how men and women are similar AND different and to try to tackle this enormously complex reality via one-dimensional approaches is just poor science.


Aaand it disagrees with you!

Let's try the third link

Quote:
But the new analysis published in the Public Library of Science One journal revealed that each sex shares a distinct set of characteristics, with just 18 per cent of men having a typically "female" set of traits or vice versa.


18% is a pretty signifigant number.

__________________
"The legitimacy of a state rests upon its claim to do justice"- ALAN RYAN

"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can- GEORGE BERNARD SHAW
teak

Registered:
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #12 

Being a Leftist and Socialist I see your points. And agree with many of your our points.

Unregistered
Reply with quote  #13 
Really!!!!!!!  Come on guys! You think men are discriminated against in society.  Please!!! This is a mans world you all think with your other head. Pardon my bluntness.  You get all the jobs and higher pay plus walk around with your masculinity so raging, and complain about everything. My boyfriend used to make tons more then I did and I have a higher degree then he does. This is so dumb!!! therefore, this topic should not even be discussed. There might be issues with men being discriminated against. However, there are more cases involving woman and also woman have more to deal with.

So Please stop acting like babies.

All men need to grow up.



Sandy
Unregistered
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered

So Please stop acting like babies.

All men need to grow up.


Wow.  So instead of sexist men telling women to stop being hysterical, we now have sexist women telling men to "grow up" and "stop acting like babies."

Discrimination against men does happen. I have an androgynous name and prefer to work in fields traditionally dominated by women. I have walked into interviews where it seemed pretty obvious that I would not have been invited if the selection committee had know I was male.  I was told by a very reliable source on one occasion that the only reason I was not selected for a position was because I am male. I have been in other workplace situation where an "old girls club" functioned more or less the same as these "old boys clubs" I've heard mentioned.

Men at the top of the socioeconomic hierarchy sure do seem to have plenty of advantages. In my opinion, there isn't much trickle down. I get the feeling that in an effort to try to pretend that gender equity is going on, companies beef up their female-to-male ratios by hiring lots of women for entry level positions.  That makes it that much harder to get one of those jobs if you are male, unless you are born into the privileged class.

I have also been a victim of domestic abuse.  If I did not have family willing to take me in, I don't know where I would have gone. Maybe there are organizations for male victims of domestic abuse in large cities, but I do not live in a large city and most of what happened to me happened in rural America.  The best I could do was hole up in an unused room at a relative's house, let my ribs heal, and find a cheap therapist who was sympathetic, albeit clueless, to what I was going through.

I had a friend who was physically abused by his wife, but was too embarrassed at the time it was happening to admit that she was attacking him. At one time she came after him with a board with a ten-penny nail in it.  Eventually his young children, the only ones who knew about any of this, begged him to leave her. (She only attacked him, not the kids.)  If the situation were reversed, he would have been vilified as a monster. But because he was a man, he had to struggle without support and with the shame that he was failing at the gender role prescribed by society.

There are many unfair limits placed on women. The are many unfair expectations for men.  Wouldn't it be better to acknowledge there are problems for both sides and work for equality before the pendulum starts to swing too far the other way?  Replacing patriarchy with matriarchy is not the solution.

I'm not really sure how to broach this subject--it's not one that I generally speak up about--but you know there are people who do not fit into these neat and tidy "female" and "male" gender roles.  Where does all this talk about leave them?  The idea of treating women and men "different and fairly" starts to break down if you acknowledge transgender/intersex people exist.  What make sense is to treat each person as an individual, regardless of gross physical anatomy and regardless of conformity to gender roles, and to work on the issues of socioeconomic inequality stemming from the domination of government by multinational corporations.

VioletKnight

Registered:
Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #15 
^

Great post!

I think we also should bring up the lack of male teachers in primary education. There's definitely discrimination going on there.

__________________
"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."

-Rosalind Franklin
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:


Create your own forum with Website Toolbox!