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barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #16 
   Smart, first I will defend my views. I am tired of the right wing agenda taking over the JP party. No one I know of who is educated goes around in fear thinking people want to attack them. Yes, you might have a point about living in a bad neighborhood which might be something to think about. That is a small part of society. Again, there is no need to shoot guns. This includes hunting. It is cruel to kill an innocent animal that did not hurt anyone.  I wonder at times why I am even an American. Americans are becoming barbaric and sick people. They have no regard for humanity and more. I never in my life or even friends I know even thought about owning guns. There are more important things to worry about and do on this earth. I grew up playing sports and going to school not shooting guns. All these gun happy nut jobs want to be oppressed/live in fear because they have no self esteem and wait for someone to accidentally walk on their lawn or by accident cut someone off in grocery store and start mass shootings. Educated people worry about going to college and making something of themselves not prancing around trying to be the wild wild west.

Thanks,

Craig


"the future barefoot lawyer"
barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #17 
   No we should  not ban laser tag it is  a fun game. It comes down to how a person is brought up as well as regulations. Most laser tag I have played have to be  over 21 anyway. So your an adult anyway. If your a capitalist which I am not then you put money over  humanity and don't care about humanity or a human life. Second, yes there some truth to banning violent video games. Who plays most of these games? the answer is  kids from 7-19 or possibly 20. They are not adults who know better and know how to differentiate between reality and non reality. Little kids get brainwashed by violence. Again it all comes down to how the parents teach their kids. We as a society should not condone violence and we are doing it now. We can't allow a greedy corporatist to create products on the market that don't teach or educate our youth. We are becoming the most uneducated stupidest country on the planet and Americans are OK  with this  because they are so greedy and have to have everything their neighbor has. greed clouds them and when tragedy strikes they have no one to blame but themselves. All the money spent could be used on helping humanity thrive. Such as getting people out of poverty. Creating co ops to help the local community survive. Money is being wasted again on crap that no one wants and it is being pushed on people to buy it.

Craig
Smart

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootalways
   No we should  not ban laser tag it is  a fun game. It comes down to how a person is brought up as well as regulations. Most laser tag I have played have to be  over 21 anyway. So your an adult anyway. If your a capitalist which I am not then you put money over  humanity and don't care about humanity or a human life. Second, yes there some truth to banning violent video games. Who plays most of these games? the answer is  kids from 7-19 or possibly 20. They are not adults who know better and know how to differentiate between reality and non reality. Little kids get brainwashed by violence. Again it all comes down to how the parents teach their kids. We as a society should not condone violence and we are doing it now. We can't allow a greedy corporatist to create products on the market that don't teach or educate our youth. We are becoming the most uneducated stupidest country on the planet and Americans are OK  with this  because they are so greedy and have to have everything their neighbor has. greed clouds them and when tragedy strikes they have no one to blame but themselves. All the money spent could be used on helping humanity thrive. Such as getting people out of poverty. Creating co ops to help the local community survive. Money is being wasted again on crap that no one wants and it is being pushed on people to buy it.

Craig


Not only is this empirically false, it is disgusting.

Games (all types and genres) are for all ages. Whether it's a Hello Kitty game or the next Battlefield or similar War sim. True, some parents allow their children to watch movies and play games that were not designed for them (the rating system makes it impossible for kids to buy the games themselves), but most kids these days are far too busy with other technology to care about video games. (At least the ones you can't play on your phone)

I happen to be a lifetime gamer. I am not sure what qualifies as "violent" (does violent include fictional characters engaging in fights like Super Smash Bros? or just the ones with actual weapons like swords and guns?)

As for the ages bit, I've played with Korean and Vietnam vets in the war sims (specifically Battlefield 2) and those communities tend to be very diverse (as young as 10 and as old as 70). The problem is stupid parents, not necessarily the kids.


I really don't see how you can call yourself American when you reject the Constitution, Capitalism/Free Markets, the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, a Republic (as opposed to a Democracy), etc.

Canada isn't that expensive, just move.

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Registered Libertarian, but strong supporter of all anti-war parties.
No Difference

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart


I really don't see how you can call yourself American when you reject the Constitution, Capitalism/Free Markets, the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, a Republic (as opposed to a Democracy), etc.

Canada isn't that expensive, just move.


I didn't see any evidence of anyone here rejecting the Constitution... except for you.  I believe the 1st amendment gives Barefoot (and the rest of us, including you) the right to express themselves openly and without retaliation. 

There is NO passage in the US Constitution that implies/suggests/supports/encourages/discourages any particular form of economics.

If you wish to worship at the alter of ancient elite white male slaveowners, that is your choice and we respect that.  Please respect our choice not to deify them.

Lastly, "Republic" is not the opposite of a "Democracy."  In fact, the US is both (although some may argue that it is also weak in both of them).

You have been holding a conversation with a future lawyer (we think), Mr. Smart.  He is currently in law school.  You might want to brush up on a topic before engaging those who might have more knowledge in the area.  And, please, I don't mean any condescension; I'd just like to see you have a fair fight in this argument.  (After all, we ARE the Justice Party, aren't we?)

PS  You know, telling someone else to leave the country because YOU don't agree with them sounds a lot like denying them access to free markets of ideas.  I know you did not really mean that.

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Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
Smart

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Difference
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart


I really don't see how you can call yourself American when you reject the Constitution, Capitalism/Free Markets, the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, a Republic (as opposed to a Democracy), etc.

Canada isn't that expensive, just move.


I didn't see any evidence of anyone here rejecting the Constitution... except for you.  I believe the 1st amendment gives Barefoot (and the rest of us, including you) the right to express themselves openly and without retaliation. 

There is NO passage in the US Constitution that implies/suggests/supports/encourages/discourages any particular form of economics.

If you wish to worship at the alter of ancient elite white male slaveowners, that is your choice and we respect that.  Please respect our choice not to deify them.

Lastly, "Republic" is not the opposite of a "Democracy."  In fact, the US is both (although some may argue that it is also weak in both of them).

You have been holding a conversation with a future lawyer (we think), Mr. Smart.  He is currently in law school.  You might want to brush up on a topic before engaging those who might have more knowledge in the area.  And, please, I don't mean any condescension; I'd just like to see you have a fair fight in this argument.  (After all, we ARE the Justice Party, aren't we?)

PS  You know, telling someone else to leave the country because YOU don't agree with them sounds a lot like denying them access to free markets of ideas.  I know you did not really mean that.


I feel like am reading something from infowars.

1. Learn English
2. Barefoot has directly attacked the Constitution by opposing a Republican form of government, opposing the second amendment and opposing Capitalism (which is the only economic model compatible with the Constitution.
3. Since Barefoot opposes what the Founders envisioned, naturally he and every other non-Capitalist should simply leave America for countries that aren't Capitalist, like Canada or most of the rest of the world. It's not his fault he was born American.
4. America is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.
5. "altar of ancient elite white male slaveowners", Excuse me? you're the one who believes in welfare, not me. I oppose all forms of slavery and all tyranny.
6. I have not spoken on any topic that would require a law degree to speak on.
7. You should probably join Barefoot in Canada, since you hate Liberty so much. I bet you think Murray Rothbard was a crazed lunatic.


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Registered Libertarian, but strong supporter of all anti-war parties.
Ben Eastwood

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #21 

My (slightly more than) 2 cents on gun control. 

 

 1) Assault Rifle bans are to reducing gun violence and to the left, what Abstinence only education is to teen pregnancy and the right.  Both are heavily divisive topics, that are culturally programmed to be divisive.  Neither leads to any real tangible difference in the issue it is trying to address, and to criticize it is to draw intense personal attacks from the side that supports it.  This is a very emotional topic, and it is designed and spun to be as divisive as possible, because, the real solution, the one that will work, is the one that deals with the root causes of violence and teen pregnancy.  What are the causes?  Economic disparity, social injustice, drug abuse and lack of available treatment without risking criminal prosecution and societal persecution, lack of education, etc. etc.  These are all key core values we already share.  These are pretty non controversial items that you can often get folks to agree across the aisle on.  If we take care of the root causes of violence, we not only reduce Gun Violence, but we reduce suicides, we reduce domestic violence, we reduce drug dependancy, we improve economic opportunity, and raise the overall education and skill level of our citizens and workforce.  We put more people to work, that were on the system, because we know that most people do not want to be on the dole.  We provide social justice, economic justice and we make America safer, and we do it without the divisive gun control battle that either won't be won in the end, or winning it will be a Pyrrhic Victory, that will create deadlock and distrust and prevent the other parts of the puzzle from coming together.  Are we trying to reduce violence or win a victory over "those gun control people"?

2)  It doesn't help either forward the debate, or build the party to either pretend that either side of the debate is morally or intellectually superior to the other, or that this is a right left wing issue.  In fact, as the issue is going to be resolved without our input this year, we would be better served building the party than debating the issue.  It does more harm to the bigger picture to be divided and argue.  I am not saying let's not address the problem, but instead, let's see the problem as an opportunity for the JP to set ourselves apart.  End the internal gun control argument, and focus on solutions that we can build consensus around. People are sick of the petty bickering (and yes, in the scheme of things, from either side, assault rifle bans are petty) but want to work together to find solutions.  EVERY party out there seems to be focused on the gun control debate.  Moneyball politics says we either play their game by their rules on their field, or we find a way to change the game.  Come up with a plan that will solve the violence issue, and do it without an assault rifle ban, and I am pretty sure you will find that folks will be drawn to it.  If we stay above the fray on divisive issues, we are in a unique position to help people see past petty differences and remember that, right or left, we are ALL under the thumb of the corporatocracy.  If we are still playing left/right politics, we're playing the wrong game.  Justice isn't a left or right issue.  My own Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul worked across the aisle, and left the party vitriol at home, and look what they got accomplished.  The convinced congress to audit the FED, and found Trillions (actual numbers still unknown)  in secret bailouts.  A right left coalition may be folly, but we need to refrain from right baiting or antagonizing folks with different beliefs than ours.  Justice is Tolerant.

  and 3) the assault rifle ban is wrong.  It is based on emotional thinking, not rational numbers.  It is based on false assumptions about which guns kill more people, who pulls the trigger on the category of gun deaths that kill the most people, the effectiveness in preventing mass murder, and the logical argument that the way to deal with an activity that we find unpleasant, and we don't see as a necessity is to ban people from doing it. 
    As was proven during the Bush years, folks act irrationally when the government gets them reacting emotionally to fear based stimuli.  Remember Freedom Fries?  Look how the corporate media is framing this, it is framed with the same intensity as the war against Saddam.  It is designed to keep us fighting amongst ourselves and running amok and scared in order to keep us from looking behind the curtain, and seeing the real criminals, the War Criminals in the white house, and the criminals in congress and wall street and the fed with briefcases and bailouts. The corporate criminals that get appointed to regulatory agencies to gut their ability to protect our safety. 
  Meanwhile, what ARE the numbers for people killed in the US by assault rifle?  What are the numbers of people killed by other guns? What are the numbers of people that are killed by their own hand, and what is the number of people that our president is killing with airstrikes and drone attacks?  (or to the 170+ kids in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria and Yemen not count? 
  The real numbers are shocking, and dismaying. 
Gun Violence is actually LOWER now than it was throughout the 70's 80's 90's. By nearly half. It is lower now than it was through most of the last assault rifle ban.
  The type of gun that kills the most people is pistols, followed by shotguns, and then rifles trail in a distant 3rd and includes assault rifles.  The type of gun that kills the most people is the gun used to commit suicide.  More people commit suicide with guns than all the homicides combined regardless of cause.  More people kill themselves than all the gun deaths combined.  About half of suicides are gun related.  For every kid that was killed at the tragedy in sandyhook, over 1,000 people kill themselves, 500 of them with a gun, and the vast majority are pistols.  In fact, for each person murdered by a rifle in America including assault rifles, hunting rifles and target rifles combined, there were 100 homicides and several hundred suicides that were killed with another sort of gun.  If we are going to try to solve gun violence by a ban, we need to ban ALL guns, because rifles are just a bucket of sand on the beach, and assault rifles are just a few shells in the bucket. 

  Assault rifle bans do not stop mass shootings.  Columbine: occurred during the last gun ban.  All weapons were purchased legally. No assault weapons there.    Virginia tech:  The largest school shooting in recent years, was perpetrated by a guy with 2 pistols, one of them a dinky .22.  He killed or wounded like 50 people.  Sandyhook:  The gunman had a couple of pistols and a shotgun with him, and had access to several rifles.  He was able to wander the school shooting folks for 15-20 minutes before the police showed up.  Even with the pistols and shotgun he would have had plenty of time to wreak havoc.  However, with a better screening process the VT shooting may have been avoided if there was a better screening process, and Newtown Shooter and the Columbine shooters may not have been in the mental crisis that drove them to act as they did if they had been given access to mental health services. 
  Let's look at Australia... When their gun ban went into effect, the suicide rate went up.  True, the gun suicides dropped, but the overall rate went up for a couple years, and it is still close to the US in suicides.  In both cases, access to mental health services could prevent many times the needless deaths that the gun ban could.

  And finally, if the criterion for banning something is that it kills people, and is unnecessary, then we need to ban private cars.  They kill far more people, both directly, and indirectly through the pollution they cause, and the wars that are fought to fuel them.  Or a partial ban, just ban sports cars and big suv's, and ban any car that can go faster than the speed limit.  Speed is the biggest factor in pollution, and both in getting into an accident, and how likely it is to be fatal.  There is no need for anyone to drive, let alone speed. 

  That is the logical argument that is being made, and we need to insure that laws we pass provide equal protection, and that no category is given preferential treatment because it might cause us to have to give up a convenience too...

So let's get off the 'gun control' kick, and back onto the 'solving issues' roll.  We can set ourselves apart, but it is not going to be through a bunch of stale tired rhetoric. 

  I do believe there is room for tougher background checks, which could be instantaneous, and for state controls, such as mandatory training to legally carry a firearm in public, so long as it doesn't become a privacy issue.  I also think that we need to strengthen and enforce existing gun laws, so that if you use a gun in the commission of a crime you suffer some severe consequences such as hard time doing hard labor, loss of gun owning, and voting, and forfeiture of property.  I think that if you own a gun and it is used in a crime, you should be subject to negligence or accomplice charges where you have to prove you kept your gun in a reasonable safe manner or face consequences.  We need to temper the stick with carrot.  We need to insure that the economic disparity in the country is dealt with, so that everybody has the opportunity to live a happy and fulfilled life, and earn a living wage.
   
  We need to build a platform of solutions, and not let one issue derail us, as gun control will if we aren't careful.

~Ben Eastwood, Vermont SPP

 


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We came, we saw, we gathered signatures, we sued, we gathered signatures, we got Rocky on the Ballot in Vermont. That was the easy part, now we have to get this Justice Party Started!
No Difference

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Posts: 155
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart


I feel like am reading something from infowars.
My remarks?  Really.  I have never been told my remarks sound like something posted on Infowars.  But I will take a look...

Quote:

1. Learn English
Excuse me?  I am not aware that I speak in any language except English.  Were you requesting British spellings or certain regionalisms?   I don't understand what you are referring to.
Quote:

2. Barefoot has directly attacked the Constitution by opposing a Republican form of government, opposing the second amendment and opposing Capitalism (which is the only economic model compatible with the Constitution.

Why is capitalism the only economic model compatible with the Constitution?  Which section is that written -- I have never heard anyone claim that before.  Are you sure you are not fabricating this?

As far as Barefoot attacking a Republican form of government, while I would be satsified with a more effective republic than what we have now, I am familiar with the arguments for alternative forms, such as some form of anarchy (which Libertarians often embrace, btw).  Not my cup of tea, and were that to happen, yes, I might just move to Canada.  But not before then.

Quote:

3. Since Barefoot opposes what the Founders envisioned, naturally he and every other non-Capitalist should simply leave America for countries that aren't Capitalist, like Canada or most of the rest of the world. It's not his fault he was born American.

Wrong again.  Canada happens to be a very capitalist country.  They have stock markets, they charter corporations (in fact, they even have federal corps, unlike the US), they exchange money for goods and services, just like everywhere else.
Quote:

4. America is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

Again, America is both a democracy and a constitutional republic.  The two terms are not measured along the same yardstick.   Democracy has to do with the degree of freedom that people have, such as speech, religion, etc.    Republic has to do with the mechanisms of government with respect to the lawmaking and executive functions.

Now, you might argue that the US is more of a republic than it is a democracy, but those would have to be measured independently, not in relation to each other.
Quote:

5. "altar of ancient elite white male slaveowners", Excuse me? you're the one who believes in welfare, not me. I oppose all forms of slavery and all tyranny.

"...promote the general welfare..."  (right out of your favorite doc, son)

Funny, your demigods did not oppose all forms of slavery and tyranny.  It took a civil war and a 100 years of social struggle to rid us (of most) of that.
Quote:

6. I have not spoken on any topic that would require a law degree to speak on.

Except perhaps the actual words of the Constitution, as we have repeatedly pointed out for you here.
Quote:

7. You should probably join Barefoot in Canada, since you hate Liberty so much. I bet you think Murray Rothbard was a crazed lunatic.


I don't know where you are getting the idea that either Barefoot or myself hate or even dislike Liberty.  There is no evidence of it.  And I won't even entertain your final point, which is no doubt intended to goad me into even more of your (apparently?) uneducated and simplistic RW thinking.

Incidentally, you would look better if you would stop trying to make personal attacks here.  It undermines whatever integrity you might have.  Calling people names, telling them where to go, etc., is called the ad hominem fallacy.  Such informal fallacies immediately invalidate your arguments, so please refrain from that in the future.

BTW, you will notice that many of us here disagree with one another, including myself.  But no one -- and I mean no one -- is suggesting that anyone has to leave if they don't agree with something.  Please learn to accept that the people here, in large part, are repulsed by right wing ideology.  You should expect that you will receive unfavorable responses to your claims, particularly when they are not based on either fact or good argument form.

As far as I am concerned, you are welcome to join people here for conversation and disagreement, even if you yourself do not welcome or embrace it.  I am pretty sure others here would agree.  But be warned I will not be responding any further to your posts because I do not care for your lack of logic and soundness of information.

__________________
Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #23 
   Smart, first of all hear me out. You have no right telling someone what to do. This is the very thing I am fighting for because capitalism is destroying humanity. American form of capitalism IS BAD. Capitalism IS OK IF IT WORKS PROPERLY. Obviously, you never traveled the world. Europe, Australia, Canada, all are capitalistic but not a greedy self centered form of capitalism that we have in the USA. Ours is not regulated and if it was it would be better. Most of the other counties it is somewhat regulated. Unfortunately, the greedy self centered me me attitude has brainwashed Americans. Americans can't think beyond their own surroundings. So you want to be controlled and not think freely. Everything your spouting is what I am fighting against. It is the corporations which tell you where to eat, where to sleep, where to have sex. You can't just eat what you want to. You have no say over your body. Try walking down the road with no shirt on. Australia and any country would be ok with it. In America you go to jail. That is not a free country in my eyes. In my home city of NY, a girl I knew was fired because she had the wrong color hair. Jobs should be firing people for real reasons not bs ones. So this a world you want to live in. See it is typical that many Americans don't know any other amendments but the dam 2nd amendment right to bear arms. So you don't care about freedom of speech or any other real human right issue but when people hear about guns they jump out of their seats and start a hissy fit. So it shows either Americans are dumb or they just only care about guns and nothing else. I know of someone who knew someone who beat someone up over a gun because they talked bad about guns. Mentally sick in the head. So take your gun loving stuff and have sex with your gun and fall in love with it. I am sick of the gun issues. There are more important things in life to worry about. You have a right to what you want but don't tell people they must agree with you. I don't care if people agree with me or not. My friends in Australia are appalled at all the violence in America. Yes it stems from how a person is brought up but also some just loose it or have been mentally touched and never knew about it. A person could have been brought up very well. It is society and the loosing of our freedoms and bs brainwashing that people believe in which are making them nuts so they loose it. So, you would rather buy a  300 dollar shirt and keep spending on crap that you don't need and over spend to keep the false lies of the corrupt, crooked, and evil machine going and going while someone goes hungry. Just plain heartless. DO YOU EVEN HAVE A HEART. You are the only one on this board who has totally diff ways of thinking then most of us. You are more of a republican. Most of what JP stands for is against the capitalistic machine. The two main parties out there are for the capitalistic system which we are trying to fix. You don't seem to think anything is wrong with the country. You must have been sleeping way to long. Why are you joining this party? Why not be a republican after all you said America is not democratic it is a republic which is a dumb thing to say. Republicans believe it is a republic. Second of all it is a disgrace and Anti-American to not call America a democracy. Our fore fathers fought for the US to be a democracy. We broke away from colonial rule(England) so we can be a democracy. I think you might be someone who believes in destroying America and it's values. America is a country who believes in rights for all people. You said you are not for a welfare state. Well what happens if something happened to you? You would be the first one on food stamps or unemployment. Please the hypocrisy!! it is scary. It is a basic human right not a privilege to have  food stamps and other safety nets. Yes it needs to be managed better with no corruption but not taken away whatsoever. Thank you NO DIFF for your comments. We might have disagreed in the past but it is healthy to disagree and  we all agree the US is in a bad position that needs to be fixed and we want the best not the worst for America.

Thank You,

Craig

barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #24 
Smart, No Diff is right here is what No Diff said "Please learn to accept that the people here, in large part, are repulsed by right wing ideology.  You should expect that you will receive unfavorable responses to your claims, particularly when they are not based on either fact or good argument form"

Yes most of us would agree with NO DIFF. This is not a right wing party. We are party of change not the same nonsense that is in the two mainstream parties. I really believe no one wants change but JP only. We are open to people on this board but will  not take crap from any republican who is on here pretending to be a JP person. Even the serious left wing is sick. I don't like either party. That's why JP is trying to get started to be diff from both parties not the same. You want the same of the republican party. JP is no where near the republican party. Please if we get any wack nuts on this board or people who have very sick ideologies aligned with the right wing. Then I will leave the JP party for good.


Thanks

barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #25 
  Smart. you probably are the kind of person to shoot someone for accidentally taking your parking spot or by accident bump into you in a store or shoot someone because you don't like the way they are dressed. It is funny it is all of the gun supporters who at the same time don't like diff things or who are not open minded to society. They are the ones who will shoot someone if they have a diff view or drive a diff car. Very nutty.
barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #26 
Here is another one for "Smart". Smart quoted  Registered Libertarian, but strong supporter of all anti-war parties.

Hello how can you be for capitalism and against war. Duh!! corporations and capitalism are causing war. Wow that does not make sense. I think you really care about humanity or life in general. I believe your a phoney. If your a capitalist then you love war and support it. I am a pacifist and don't believe in violence or war. I don't believe in corporate anything because they create phoney wars to make money so that is capitalism. DUH DUH DUH!!!  see making money. I am sure there are many who feel the same as me. If you are against wars then you are against the very people who create them. However, you worship money and the greedy corporation so you are supporting wars and atrocities.

That is disgusting!!!

Keep supporting corporations.
and keep supporting the war mongers.


Every nut job will give those corporate nut jobs money and they get bigger and bigger and then they wonder why corporations got so large.

DUMB DUMB AND DUMB DUH!!!!! DUH!!!!!!


Ben Eastwood

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Reply with quote  #27 

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootalways


Hello how can you be for capitalism and against war. Duh!! corporations and capitalism are causing war. Wow that does not make sense. I think you really care about humanity or life in general. I believe your a phoney.




2 comments:

  1. It is possible to love capitalism, and hate war, and it is possible to love capitalism, and love progressive ideals as well, read up on Henry Wallace and what he had to say about Progressive Capitalism.  You yourself even said in an earlier post that " Capitalism IS OK IF IT WORKS PROPERLY".  

  2. When you reduce your arguments to personal attacks, no matter how inflammatory the other person may be, you've lost the argument.  Rise above it. Illigitimi non carbonundrum. Never let the bastards grind you down.  This board has gotten divisive recently, lets try to lead by example, and promote peace and mutual respect on the boards instead of reducing the debate to a polemic flame war. 

  Respectfully, Ben Eastwood, VT SPP



__________________
We came, we saw, we gathered signatures, we sued, we gathered signatures, we got Rocky on the Ballot in Vermont. That was the easy part, now we have to get this Justice Party Started!
barefootalways

Registered:
Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #28 
Ben,

  firstly, yes it is possible to like capitalism if it is regulated and a mild form of it. American capitalism is a disease. American capitalism is bad and can't be loved if you don't want war. Who do you think is paying for war? American Capitalism. People are dying of the greed and Americans are addicted to the bs that comes out of these corporations mouth. There is no need to buy a car every 4 years or a new toaster, etc. These phoney companies create products purposely to break down so the dumb naive people spend their hard earn money on things they don't need. They can't eat and pay bills and end up being homeless. Secondly, stores are open to late and some 24 hours. Stores don't have to be that greedy to stay open. other countries like Germany and Australia they have to close by law AT 530 PM and they are still capitalistic. The people in Australia might be slightly capitalistic but they don't let it get to their heads it is a different type of mentality. So people are home with their families there is no need to be out shopping at 9pm at night. Family life is important from what my German friend told me. Most people in these countries and other capitalistic counties are more regulated then USA even though they are starting to get their fair share of greedy right wingers trying to corrupt them. I have lived in Germany and Australia. They don't have the fake credit default swaps and made up garbage that America made up. So that's my point. Other countries might be greedy in a diff way but America has more scams then any other country in the world. Many people know this.

  Secondly, countries like Canada, Germany, Australia, Netherlands, etc are 60/40 split 60 percent capitalism and 40 percent socialism. The education and health care and other small minor sectors are government owned and run and in essence free but come out of taxes. Now, Canada is going towards USA in privatisation which is bad. Universities are not free like Europe and in Australia education is not free but cheaper than USA which is fair. They are becoming 70/30 split. Which is still healthy but not as healthy as it should be. America is the only country that is mainly capitalistic.  Well at 97%. Still, Germany and Canada and many other countries are capitalistic and can be greedy like USA. They have a little more safeguards towards their assets and sovereignty. They are getting worse from what my Canadian friend tells me. A little bit more but they are not over the top greedy but if they keep going the pace the way the USA is THEY  will eventually get rid of the regulation due to more right wing corporatist that worship every little penny and destroy the well being of their citizens.

  As No Diff said and is right. These countries are capitalistic because they also have a stock market. I firmly don't believe in the stock market it destroys humanity and the country as a whole. Companies should remain private and only have private stock amongst their own employees it will help the employees with saving and live better. The more outside influence of people trying for a piece of the pie AKA greed(stocks in General) it damages the company. The stock market is dangerous and people have lost all their life savings due to it. It is gambling like any other form of gambling  such as a casino. More companies are being taken over and destroyed by corporate greed. Good companies who were hard working and did good corporate diligence were being beaten by competition and swallowed. Again, these fake phony capitalist believe in free market but don't believe in free fair competition. Companies deserve to compete it lowers the price when their are more players in the market. This is common economics.





Ben Eastwood

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Reply with quote  #29 
Maybe we should term the fake or american capitalists neo-capitalists, or corporatists, or just agree with Mussolini that fascism is corporatism.  I do like the idea of a national wage or cost of living supplement, as long as it allows for folks to continue to earn more if they wish, and think it could be paid for with a progressive tax on income, and by part of the so called peace dividend that we would enjoy if we strip the defense budget.
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swansok4

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Reply with quote  #30 
@ben Eastwood,

Great post on ending gun violence and implementing real change. The Economist had a similar article. Assault rifle bans don't work. They are too small of a piece of the pie. Since the constitution allows guns we need to A) change the constitution, which is unlikely or B) better regulate and track who owns a gun. I think Something similar to a car license with required training and a written test is a great idea.
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