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Robert

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Posts: 114
Reply with quote  #1 
Naomi Klein gets it.

'I'd Rather Fight Like Hell': Naomi Klein's Fierce New Resolve to Fight for Climate Justice

'Climate change is the human-rights struggle of our time'

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/12/13

No Difference

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Reply with quote  #2 
What if the other side demands compromise on this issue (which, in fact, they do, and actually much more so)?
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Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
Robert

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Reply with quote  #3 
The other side doesn't even acknowledge that there is a problem or if there is a problem it is not caused by humans. Perhaps more importantly this is a scientific issue. You can't compromise with the laws of physics and chemistry. Either we follow the science or we don't. Also, you can't compromise with global warming deniers. There is no middle ground. Either global warming is mainly caused by humans (which it is) or it isn't (which is not true). The Republicans and Democrats can't cut a deal on that question. While on many issues politicians can compromise, you can't on this and get anywhere because it is irreversible, the effects will last for thousands of years, and to fail not only will result in injustice but probably the end of civilization. Nobody will be able to go back and reverse the damage.
No Difference

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Reply with quote  #4 
Robert, you may have just won a fan here.  See, this is one of many situations where compromise would be toxic, literally and figuratively.  Yes, here there is no middle ground; I agree 100%, more if I could.  Perhaps you and others here who have suggested that we be open to compromise will now understand why I am so repelled by the idea.

And, btw, I am not entirely against compromise.  As other members have noted elsewhere in these forums, we have some common ground with Greens, and possibly some of the Socialist parties, and maybe others, too.   Those might be places where some compromises could make for good bargains; I don't know, and I can't think of anything substantive at the moment.  But I would be open to it in under some very, very limited conditions and only with folks with a proven record of keeping commitments.

My main point about compromise, bargaining, negotiating, is that all sides must come away with something they can use, and without giving up on principles.   We are fortunate that the other smaller parties are not, for the most part, inherently corrupted by corporate conflicts of interest.  There may be some opportunities for constructive joint actions.

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Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
barefooting west coast

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Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #5 
   Robert, I do agree with you. This has been an ongoing issue that no party wants to mention or fix. I am in the west coast and we are very "organic" here. I don't know where you are but here at least we are making progress.

My wish is for all states to be progressive. This past year being in the east coast was a nightmare. The east coast is not progressive at all.

Chad
bobgnote

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Reply with quote  #6 

BTW, the Mayan 5000+/year cycle is wrapping up, tomorrow, 12/20/12.

We didn't get away.  The priest who was calling all the shots, like some sort of Nostradamus, in the main Codec, of four surviving documents predicted an end, by flood.

Of course, as the Arctic cap fails, more catastrophically, every summer, more energy enters the climate system.

By 2020, we will be headed toward losing NOLA, Sacramento, and other areas, to flood.  

ALEC is unregulated, and with Heartland and any several affected idiots, all are claiming CO2 is NOT a pollutant, as the EPA has stated.  But at any level, over the consistent interglacial maximum, of 280 ppm, CO2 is a pollutant, and as forcing factor, for climate change, CO2 concentration therefore makes all the other GHGs into pollutants.

CO2 is at 396 ppm and climbing, with a lot of spot readings, over 400 ppm, in 2012.  Any time CO2 goes up, even a tenth as fast as today's fastest ever rise in atmospheric concentration, CO2 kills off everything, in a mass extinction event.  Al Gore and everybody can get a clue, from Frank, of the SF 49ers, who gets the ball late, and pounds in, for 6.  We will suffer Mass Extinction Event 6, even if we don't suffer a bollide impact.

When the Arctic cap fails, toward the 2024 peak, of Solar Cycle 25 (Cycle 24 peaks in 2013), the Greenland Shelf ice will begin to melt, in an accelerated way.  The Greenland Shelf melted, totally, June 2012, the first such complete melt, since 1889 or so, which was the first such total melt, since the Medieval Warm Period.

When that shelf ice starts to go, sea level rise will accelerate, well beyond today's 3.19 mm/year, which approaches double the 20th Century average, of 1.7 mm/year.

All of warming and climate change will accelerate, in the 2020s, when the oceans will roar, so that floods ravage places, like Sacramento, so ALEC-connected corporations can make a killing, off reclaiming distressed property, when some governor smarter than Jerry 'Moonbeam' Brown is available, hopefully, and some President who isn't a crackhead, following two coconuts is in the Oval Office, and if brainy people are in Congress, maybe we can get constitutional rule, out of that judge-wrecked junk, which is over 200 years old and badly contaminated.

Or, we can get an E.R.Article-based new constitution, for any country, which chattels my state, California, and anybody who wants to allow GW Bush to arrange for the 911 attacks to happen, let him lie, about WMDs, pardon Scooter, and then try to start war, with Iran can live in some East Coast redstate hell, which will get soused, by Sandy-type storms, more often, and then the volcano on La Palma in the Canaries will erupt, calving 1/3 of the island, into the Atlantic, and the East Coast will get swamped, by a tsunami.

We need modern definitions for security, protections against invading individuals and groups, both ad hoc and corporate, and this should include freedom FROM religion, before any freedom of religion.  Security must be protected, so states in MY republic don't propose measures, which compromise rights, to create controversies, where due process has already failed, discovery is cheated or averted, by collusion, and the bar associations and courts allow misconduct, to incite and riot, for profiteering.

The carbon footprint of misconduct must be minimized.

And then the drug war must fail, since pot is illegal, to prevent its swing, to resource, from contraband, which causes great loss of life and a horrendous carbon footprint.  Pot is resource, for 25,000 products, including ethanol and plastic, made by Henry Ford, since he introduced the Model T, in 1908.  But moreover, when we start to get bad floods, to go with our spring and summer wildfires, we will need calcified hemp hurds and HEMPCRETE, made by adding lime and water to parts of the hemp hurds, to make a fireproof and mold-resistant building material, or Sacramento and NOLA will have to be abandoned.

Sacramento levees were constructed by farmers, toward the end of the 19th Century, and they will fail, as El Nino events begin to predominate our climate.  When we get a quake, these junk levees will be subjected to liquefaction, and then a bad runoff will finish them.

NOLA is repaired, from Andrew, to withstand a class 3 'cane, which isn't enough.  The El Nino jets will swing low, preventing some landfalls, but any storm which gets in will be an Andrew or Hugo or Rita, etc.  

And then the oceans will acidify, so cold currents wreck the food web and reefs, and warm currents bring jellyfish explosions, to wreck the food web.  Humans which over-fish, despoil, and pollute will finish commercial and game fish, which are already beset.  Shellfish are doomed.

And THEN, SLR will accelerate, which will mean lunar tides are heavy enough, to increase seismic and volcanic events.  Volcanic eruptions will bring more CO2, SO2, and NO2, which will acidify everything and kill plants and animals, big-time.  Humans will become endangered.

Of course, ALEC, the Kochs, Halliburton, and other trashers want idiots to think disasters are 'natural,' but under the circumstances of human clearing of CO2 respirators, reliance on fossil fuels, and aversion to cyclic CO2 media, like switchgrass, pongamia trees, algae, and HEMP, while stomping a big, old carbon footprint, in everyone's back, from CORRUPTION, mislabeled 'economic' activity, the corrupt ones seek to ruin our funding and other infrastructure, to then gather distressed property, for profiteering.

Riot is evident, but corrupt courts will not notice the underlying misconduct, which results in uneven enforcement of law, for profiteering.

We won't escape the Mayan onus OR the fiscal cliff.  We aren't supposed to.  Barack the crackhead will keep using gimmicks, to kill, while US debt goes, to $17 trillion or more.  He can't win GW's wars, since GW blew off tips from Clinton, the CIA, the Brits, the Mossad, the French, any number of Afghans and Pakistanis, but hey, even a moderate Taliban chief tried to snitch on bin Laden, and GW quashed an FBI investigation into him and the Saudis, took the August 6, 2001 memo, from the CIA, ran off, to the longest vacation in the history of the Presidency, got over to Florida, to see Jeb, and BOOOOOOM!  

A whole lot of insider trading was evident.  The Democrats kept letting GW get away, with murder and staying the course, they blamed Ralph Nader, for their own suction, and then Barack blew off John McCain's offer, to agree, to public funding, for the 2008 election.  Barack then got elected and adopted corporate agendas, including to copy Obamneycare, to knowingly blow off the DDDrats 2008 majority, in the US House, by 2010, never-minding how all kinds of Mitt Romney guys were in hospital administration, so shoving 2400 pages of private insurer junk just propped up the $25 price, for hospital gowns.

And all this had a carbon footprint, but Barack the crackhead wouldn't prioritize climate change, one time, despite promising to get this done, 2008, 2010, and 2012.

He and Al Gore DID propose carbon trading, which is like playing with the price of admission, to an HIV-pesthole bath-house, which needs to get closed down, but the owners jack the admission and offer coupons.

No wonder Sacha Baron Cohen lampoons Barack, Davids Plouffe and Axelrod, Robert Gibbs, Ahnold, and Jerry 'Moonbeam' Brown, in BRUNO.  Hey, Brown stunk, in the 1970s, and now that he's in his 70s, he's Governor, again, and he thinks he's Bieber.

He might have to swim, in flotsam, before he moves back to L.A., for a mudslide.  Just saying.

Lifeguard of love

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Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #7 
Dude, Spot on about NOLA. The horrible storms and climate change might knock NOLA off the map in a few years. I was there after Hurricane Catrina. In my wildest dreams, I would never have imagined NOLA  looking like a third world country.




Mike

Leave foot prints for life


"protect our oceans"
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