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 Which of these options do you think the Justice Party should prioritize to reduce poverty and ensure the economic prosperity of Americans?
 Mandate zero to very low unemployment, and create a reservoir of low skill, low paying jobs. (full employment) 0 0%
 Mandate that employers pay a living wage.(living wage) 2 40%
 Institute a baseline national wage or subsidy to all citizens which will cover the basic cost of living.(national wage/ cost of living subsidy) 2 40%
 I do not think the JP should endorse any policy in this area. 0 0%
 Other, (please tell us in a comment below.) 1 20%
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Total votes: 5   Please or register an account to vote.


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Ben Eastwood

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Reply with quote  #1 
  Recently there has been alot of talk about whether the party should mandate full employment as a plank.  Folks have raised many valid concerns about this , and have proposed several other possibilities, including a living wage, and a national income.   Which of these ideas do you think the party should support, if any, and how would you suggest we address the issue of unemployment/poverty in this country?  How would you pay for it?  Should the federal government pay for some or all of it?  Should the federal govt be spending money here at all? 
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alanmaki

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Reply with quote  #2 

Other... see here:

http://justiceparty.websitetoolbox.com/post/Full-Employment-requires-more-than-repeating-the-words-quotJobs-Jobs-Jobs.quot-6149484



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Alan L. Maki
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Midwest Casino Workers Organizing Council

Notice: I am no longer a member of the Justice Party or the Justice Party's National Steering Committee

58891 County Road 13
Warroad, Minnesota 56763

Phone: 218-386-2432
Cell: 651-587-5541

Primary E-mail: amaki000@centurytel.net

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Blog: http://thepodunkblog.blogspot.com/
Michael McGEE

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Reply with quote  #3 

Why the American People desperately need FULL EMPLOYMENT !

Ben,

It's obvious that you don't understand the political importance of the struggle for FULL EMPLOYMENT as a way to respond to people's needs and alleviate the ever increasing poverty that is destroying the lives of literally MILLIONS of families.

May I remind you, that as we write, nearly 1 in 4 American children are living in poverty in the richest country in the world ! Millions of families have been thrown out of their homes. Entire cities and States have gone bankrupt. Millions of people go bankrupt because of health problems.




The American people have not known close to Full Employment since the New Deal era when the Franklin D. Roosevelt Government, along with the first women Labor Secretary, Francis Perkins, and thousands of political activists pushed for Government funded programs such as the WPA - Works Progress Administration.

Many of the public schools, bridges and parks that we enjoy today were built by these Government funded Jobs programs.

Today, a Government funded FULL EMPLOYMENT program should include millions of jobs in a universal public health care system, millions more in a public service child care system... community development... education... and the rebuilding of our crumbling public infrastructure. Have you ever traveled in Europe, China or Russia and ridden in one of their High-Speed BULLET TRAINS, and then compared that with one of our antiquated American Amtrak trains ?




All of these PUBLIC SERVICES that I just mentioned, such as Universal Health Care, Child Care, high quality Public Housing, etc. already exist for millions of Europeans.


Many of these public programs that Europeans enjoy today, came out of the social and political struggles of millions of people before and after the War, when Europe lay in ruins.

The funding of these public service FULL EMPLOYMENT programs will come from the "Peace dividends" that the American taxpayer will realize when we put a stop to these extremely costly never-ending wars of aggression... when we close down the over 800 costly overseas Military Bases... when we put a heavy tax on Financial Speculation... when we increase taxes on the Super-Rich and American based Multi-nationals that outsource jobs overseas... when we create 49 more Public State Banks, similar the the State Bank of North Dakota... and when the American Government re-establishes its sovereign right to create its own money, instead of borrowing at interest from the Private Banks in the Federal Reserve...



            Obama's 2013 Discretionary Budget for War and Poverty



As long-time progressive activist and principled fighter for Social Justice, Alan Maki, so admirably stated :
"In my opinion, peace, full employment, health care and child care are the primary issues with the potential to create the broadest possible unity for progressive third party movements capable of breaking us free from this two-party trap, because our ability to finance job creating health care and child care rests with us being able to build a movement to secure a "peace dividend" from bringing an end to these "dirty imperialist wars", as our great national treasure, Mark Twain, put it."




As a side-note, Ben, may I suggest that you modify your negatively oriented poll which tries to equate Full Employment with low-paying jobs. A Progressive Justice Party 2014 Discretionary Budget proposal should obviously include living-wage jobs (and not "low-paying" jobs as you suggest), in any Full Employment Legislation *.

Michael McGEE
For the Progressive Tendency of the National Justice Party Steering Committee

* For the extremely important historical document on the FULL EMPLOYMENT ACT OF 1945, see :
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015081304209;seq=10;view=1up#page/n9/mode/1up
 
P.S. : Ben, if you follow the debates during the Hearings before the United States House of Representatives on the Full Employment act of 1945 - H.R. 2202, you will notice that the reactionary right-wing elements in the House of Representatives attack the need for Full Employment as a Government responsibility, just as you do.
Food for thought...

Ben Eastwood

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Reply with quote  #4 
    Michael,



    It's obvious that you don't understand the political importance of the struggle for FULL EMPLOYMENT as a way to respond to people's needs and alleviate the ever increasing poverty that is destroying the lives of literally MILLIONS of families.

  It is insulting for you to equate disagreeing with you and Alan, with not understanding.  I do understand that full employment is a vital piece of some solutions, just as a spark plug is vital to some cars.  Most cars won't run without them but to say that the key to transportation equality is to make sure all folks have sparkplugs is ridiculous, just as to say that the key to economic equality is full employment.  There are many other factors that effect economic security, and employment is just one of them.  Instead of fighting for spark plugs, why arent we fighting for reliable transportation?
  What I mean by that is there are many other types of engines that don't need spark plugs, like diesels and electric cars.  Likewise there are other roads towards economic equality that do not require full employment.  Even if we settle on a model that does require sparkplugs, again, what will be more effective?  A full based plan that addresses all the issues and helps the system along until that goal can be met, or sparkplugs?  Because, without wheels and brakes and a transmission, and steering, a car cannot go, and similarly, without the peace dividend, and without a living wage, and without safeguards ut in place to insure that full employment doesn't become a way for corporations to get out of paying for benefits or a living wage, then full employment won't drive folks to the economic equality mall.  On the other hand, if we address some of these other issues that need to be addressed anyhow, then, perhaps, we will get there without sparkplugs, and find that we all took mass transit instead.  Full employment is, at best, part of the solution, but as it stands right now, there is nothing in the bills you and Alan keep talking about to guarantee a living wage.  In fact, the full employment act limits the government to creating low wage low skill jobs, so as not to compete with private business.

    May I remind you, that as we write, nearly 1 in 4 American children are living in poverty in the richest country in the world ! Millions of families have been thrown out of their homes. Entire cities and States have gone bankrupt. Millions of people go bankrupt because of health problems.
    That is horrible, but that several different issues that do not fall under "full employment".  Many folks work full time and still don't break the poverty level, but the only factor in the full employment law is employment rate, not standard of living, or living wage. 

    The American people have not known close to Full Employment since the New Deal era when the Franklin D. Roosevelt Government, along with the first women Labor Secretary, Francis Perkins, and thousands of political activists pushed for Government funded programs such as the WPA - Works Progress Administration.


I do not oppose such programs.  I just don't think that we should define our whole platform on them, nor do I think they are sustainable.  Fiorello Laguardia was one of Roosevelts new dealers, and he instituted many social welfare programs in NYC, but then when FDR's new deal money dried up, the city basically went bankrupt.  The problem with depending on government is that it is subject to change and funds have a way of drying up, and cities and states are then stuck with bloated systems that cannot be sustained.  I think some programs are needed though, such as a program to renew our energy grid.  That will create jobs, I think it could be done through a better managed set of incentives to get many small companies working on it, and employin folks, training them and giving them lifetime employment, rather than a few months of work.  I think such programs will end up with a positive return on investment for the American people, both in the service it provides, and in the jobs it creates.




    Today, a Government funded FULL EMPLOYMENT program should include millions of jobs in a universal public health care system, millions more in a public service child care system... community development... education...
    How is universal healthcare going to create millions of jobs? The shortage of health care workers is caused by a shortage of teachers, not employees, or jobs, they already exist.  I agree with creating a federal healthcare system, and making it universally acessible, though I am opposed to mandates.

 

      I don't think we should have a federal childcare system, though I do not oppose federal funds going to provide those services provided they are managed at the state or local level.  Federal intervention in education has led to lower educational standards in many states, and weird federal mandates that may help kids in some states but harm them in others.  Case in point, here in VT we had a school lunch program that included a lot of locally grown 'farm to school' foods, local beef and veggies, local fruit and cheese, but new federal nutritional guidelines make it hard or impossible for schools to take full advantage of the state program because the lunches don't meet specific federal mandates...  We need to be sure that whatever government programs we do install will not become onerous hindrances to personal freedoms or civil liberties.

    All of these PUBLIC SERVICES that I just mentioned, such as Universal Health Care, Child Care, high quality Public Housing, etc. already exist for millions of Europeans.
    

 and are not "full employment issues"
 

    Many of these public programs that Europeans enjoy today, came out of the social and political struggles of millions of people before and after the War, when Europe lay in ruins.


  see above.



    The funding of these public service FULL EMPLOYMENT programs


Which of those public service programs are full employment programs?  I mean the WPA was sort of, but any of these programs do not depend of a policy of 'full employment' to work, just as a diesel school bus doesn't require sparkplugs to get kids to school, we do not need a full employment policy to improve our education.

    will come from the "Peace dividends" that the American taxpayer will realize when we put a stop to these extremely costly never-ending wars of aggression... when we close down the over 800 costly overseas Military Bases...


A peace dividend is great, in fact I've mentioned it myself in other posts, you won't get an argument from me about closing the military and using the dividend to improve the infrastructure, fund social programs, pay back our debt and lower taxes.  Again, not full employment.
 

    when we put a heavy tax on Financial Speculation...

Great idea, but it's not full employment.

    when we increase taxes on the Super-Rich and American based Multi-nationals that outsource jobs overseas...

Sounds great, when are you going to discuss full employment?

     when we create 49 more Public State Banks, similar the the State Bank of North Dakota...

I am working with the progressives, and the conservatives here in VT that find it wise to create a state bank and divest from wall street.  In fact we will probably get some sort of legislative action towards this.  It's not full employment.

    and when the American Government re-establishes its sovereign right to create its own money, instead of borrowing at interest from the Private Banks in the Federal Reserve...

Amen, preach it brother, the conservatives like Ron Paul like this too, and Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul worked together to get the fed audited, though it's not full employment.

    
        
    As long-time progressive activist and principled fighter for Social Justice, Alan Maki, so admirably stated :
    "In my opinion, peace, full employment, health care and child care are the primary issues with the potential to create the broadest possible unity for progressive third party movements capable of breaking us free from this two-party trap, because our ability to finance job creating health care and child care rests with us being able to build a movement to secure a "peace dividend" from bringing an end to these "dirty imperialist wars", as our great national treasure, Mark Twain, put it."
    
    It is genuinely regrettable that Alan has less admirably used his position on the steering committee to slander folks and try to discredit the party.  You get no argument from me that the war culture and war economy is breaking America.  I disagree with his OPINION on full employment (though thank you for bringing the conversation back on point)

    As a side-note, Ben, may I suggest that you modify your negatively oriented poll which tries to equate Full Employment with low-paying jobs. A Progressive Justice Party 2014 Discretionary Budget proposal should obviously include living-wage jobs (and not "low-paying" jobs as you suggest), in any Full Employment Legislation *.

  I based my wording on the full employment bill in place, which limits the gov so that any jobs the federal government creates must be low skilled low paying jobs.  I am not trying to equate it with anything, I am trying to NOT muddle the issue further by misrepresenting the law that is in place.  That is why I put an 'other' category, The poll takes into account that full employment and living wage are two separate issues, just like spark plugs and piston rings are two different parts of a car and sets to prioritize which aspects of the larger issue are more important to folks.. 


    
    P.S. : Ben, if you follow the debates during the Hearings before the United States House of Representatives on the Full Employment act of 1945 - H.R. 2202, you will notice that the reactionary right-wing elements in the House of Representatives attack the need for Full Employment as a Government responsibility, just as you do.
    Food for thought... 

WOW, right baiting? I am slightly to the left of Bernie sanders on most issues, and he is about the most progressive person in elected office at the federal level.  I lost my job trying to organize a union. If You are implying that I am that much further to the right than you are, you should really look at how far left of the American public you are.   Food for thought, to repeat your words; though a more constructive approach would be to lay off the innuendos and veiled insults, and stick to the issues.
   On the same token, it is the folks on the far right that we will have to work with to get much of this plan passed.  We have common cause on the foreign interventions of the military, and military spending, for example.  By red baiting or right baiting we only serve to dissuade potential future allies. 

Warm regards, from cold Vermont, Ben Eastwood

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We came, we saw, we gathered signatures, we sued, we gathered signatures, we got Rocky on the Ballot in Vermont. That was the easy part, now we have to get this Justice Party Started!
No Difference

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Reply with quote  #5 
Ben was merely posing a question for debate; I did not read a bias in that question. 

Ben is right that Michael's response defends a number of useful positions the Left might take up, but does not squarely address his own advocation of full employment.  It is frustrating to read these posts when they are so poorly composed.  Please take care to keep YOUR OWN posts on YOUR OWN topic!

Michael, why do you claim Ben is attacking the idea of Full Employment?

Again, please don't attack ME; I am asking for clarification.

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Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
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