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barefooting west coast

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Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #16 
I am from the UTAH AND OREGON WEST COAST area born and raised and never have seen so many people dissatisfied . I am in Maryland now but here for some strange reason politics seems more simple. I am only here a short while.
Why would that guy run under the Dem ticket and using Rocky's issues is crazy and seems like he is afraid to be who he is.

  A comment for the person named NO DIFFERENCE. You have some valid concerns. I am open minded enough to hear them and respect you. I guess the Justice party is late on getting the word out. Maybe we could have been in this position a year ago so we would be in a different position.  Whether we are or not what should happen is all of us come together and try to make it work. There is a reason we all met and came together for a cause it is called KARMA. Anyone know about Harvey Milk he never threw in the towel. We should not either



No Difference

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Posts: 155
Reply with quote  #17 
Guys, hold on, you misunderstand what I am saying.

It's not about throwing in the towel, or not wanting to try.  The trouble is, I've seen this movie a few times and it simply does not work.   Let me share with you my experience with the Greens.

First of all, I am NOT meaning to compare you with any other party.  Just want to share the worst aspects of how these campaigns run, and you can't choose to ignore them -- you will have to address them, either now, or after you have spent all your precious time and energy chasing this elusive dream.  And it IS elusive.

I am not against anyone here.  I like JP platform and I like Rocky Anderson.  But I also like the Green Party, SP-USA, and other parties over the years, and I also liked their candidates very much.  But that did not change the outcome, no matter how hard everyone worked.

JP, like other smaller parties, faces the same obstacles as these other parties.  Consider how you will PROTECT your ballot line once you get one.   Consider how you will keep pretenders, trolls, and disingenuous "Justice Party candidates" off your hard-fought-for ballot line.  In most states, the state GP works to get ballot access every two years, and promptly loses it and has to start over again.  But that is not the worst part of it. 

The worst part is that Republicans (and maybe some Democrats in some states) as well as independents with a very different agenda will run on YOUR ballot line.   This does several things.  For one, it misrepresents who your party really is.  For another, it misleads people who are not aware of this into voting for the candidate, thereby throwing the election to the greater-of-two-evils (depending on one's POV, of course).  It allows gaming of election rules and finance laws in some cases.

And you might think that getting ballot access by county is easier, but let me assure you it is not.  For counties in urban areas, you may end up needing more than the number of signatures as you do for state ballot access, which is far more work of course.  If you are in a state with, say, 3 major urban areas, you probably want ballot access in 2 or all of them, and so you have to gather sigs for each of them independently.  This is why most GP state parties choose to go for the whole banana.

I dread working on one more state ballot line that will inevitably be co-opted or undermined by disingenuous or otherwise ignorant candidates who will take advantage of open lines around the state, despite the fact you did all the work and they did none of it.  The only sigs THEY have to get is for their own race, which is usually pretty minimal.

Now, I understand that the rulers make the rules, and the rulers make rules so that the rulers can keep ruling.  Let's fast-forward through that silliness.  Everyone knows this.   But these structural issues remain.

My solution is to start at the bottom, where ballot lines are very accessible, usually only requiring minimal signatures to get individual races on the ballot.  And even though most of these local and even county races are often times "non-partisan," all that means is that the Justice Party's name will not be listed with the candidate. 

But that may actually work to the Party's advantage since other candidates and the voters may not be as intimidated by an unfamiliar party name.  And, besides, you can still put your party name on signage and the like; the city clerks I've talked to have no issues with that.   So you can still brand yourself without the need for the little advertisement on the ballot itself.   Hopefully, voters will know the candidate they want to vote for before they step into the polling place.

Then, once you've gotten a few candidates elected in local office, the party can capitalize on that fact and build on that to create brand recognition at higher levels.  I think you can figure the logic from here upward, so I will skip it.

The main issue, really, will be to continually refresh that grassroots pool of candidates working at the most local level so there will be continued growth of electable candidates with EXPERIENCE!!!

I insist on clear and unequivocal logic and strategy regarding ballot access before I drop $1-100 or gather a single signature for Rocky A. or anyone else in your party, or any other party outside the duopoly.  Sorry, folks, it is NOT stubbornness or not wanting to help or not believing in this wonderful, awesome notion of a viable third party to challenge the political brokers of the big two commercial, paid-for parties of the 1%.

I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt (although, frankly, I had to PAY for the t-shirt myself).  Please don't allow the excitement around a new organization delude you into thinking that there is something special about this party or this candidate that can transcend the cold realities of hardball politics in the U.S.

Thanks.


__________________
Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
PKonkoly

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Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #18 
Excellent words of wisdom clearly based on experience.

EVERYONE - Take heed!

Thanks for the invaluable posts ( actually, my best novice guess is that a political consultant would probably have charged $100-$200) .   Hope JP will cross the threshold you have set and get you to part with that $1-$100.   When we do, how about changing your name  (suggest "Make A Difference"? 

The name change may take some time - please look at Walter's initial post which says JP is actually a Candidate Party.   I think once we clear November the shift should be toward the type of political organization you envision.
No Difference

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Posts: 155
Reply with quote  #19 
If anyone is still wondering how a political party with deeply-rooted basis at the municipal level might better serve the public's interests than a centrist, top-down party would, consider the following video and ask yourself what this scene might have looked like had there been such a political party representing the citizens sitting on the board instead of these crooks:  http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=7994

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Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
Robert

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Posts: 114
Reply with quote  #20 

With regard to a bottom-up approach, by the time it reaches the top and we can elect a president New York City, Boston, Miami, New Orleans, etc will be under 20 feet of water and the Southwest will be a dust bowl. In other words, the climate change crisis has to be dealt with now, we need Rocky Anderson as president now. Many of the effects of climate change are irreversible and will last for thousands of years. If we reach 4ºC (7.2ºF) over preindustrial levels, which has been predicted to be possible under a worst case scenario by around 2060, many scientists predict that civilization could be put on the brink of collapse. Many including myself think this is the worst crisis the US has ever faced and possibly humans have ever faced. Extreme global warming has occurred several times in the past but never compressed into the time frame of a century. This literally could be the end. That’s why I support this centrist, top-down approach. We simply do not have the luxury at this time for any other approach. Given the domestic and international political circumstances fighting climate change may be hopeless but as Bill McKibben has demonstrated with his efforts, we cannot give up.

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Reply with quote  #21 
Do you feel it is worth it?

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Reply with quote  #22 
Do you feel it is worth it?

barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #23 
People please help. I am trying to get the message across to about a dozen or so today when I was in Manhattan. The few people I tried to get across to felt we should be doing town hall meetings and T shirts, posters, or flyers. They are all stuck on supporting Obama. I stated Rocky has great intentions. They just don't believe me and when I contacted the rep from the WFP they told me we are spoilers and blocking Obama and as well stated he was not the greatest but better for NYC. I am really bummed because they told us we are jumping in too fast.

What should I be doing? I don't know what to do.

Craig

barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #24 
I am mad because maybe we should be doing it different. Does anyone know?

Craig


Robert

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Posts: 114
Reply with quote  #25 
I'm from the NYC burbs. Perhaps the Working Families Party is not the most fertile ground for finding support for Rocky Anderson. Why don't you try environmental groups. Grassroots environmentalists will probably be much more receptive to your message. Obama has been basically silent on climate change and he has been pushing for offshore oil drilling and selling coal to China, and seems to be favorable toward exploiting shale gas and oil.and building a pipeline to bring tar sands oil from Canada to the US. Environmentalists probably realize that Obama is helping to destroy everything that they have worked for over decades because of his inaction on climate change. From that point of view whether Obama or the Republicans win eventually we are going down as the Earth heats up. I don't see why you will not be able to find some support for Rocky given that situation.
barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #26 
  I know Rocky will do well. Having been born and raised in the State of NY and born and raised in Queens NYC. We  are so controlled with this DEMOCRATIC Blue state crap. Why can't a state be a state. I am sick and tired of Red state/Blue State crap. We are all Americans.  I know Nassau and Suffolk was always red and then went Blue. No one in NY wants to get away from the two party crap. What burns my butt even more is that New Yorkers think they are so open minded and progressive/liberal. I just moved back here from being in Florida and Texas for over 7 yrs. Warm states, love the weather though. It is odd. I am from here and coming back here to NY is a different feeling for me. I know people were so different back in 2003. Now everyone is uptight about anything can't even talk with people about certain issues. New Yorkers were always cool to indulge in conversation of many topics. People say this is the most educated city in the country and more. I don't see it.  I had more fun and got through to more people about any topic in Seattle and Portland, Oregon. They seem more educated out there. It seems they are more open out west to climate change, cleaner air or just about anything.

Living in Florida, I was shocked no one brought up solar panels. For a state to be sunny all year around and warm why not harness the sun and save money on bills? Not one person even discussed it. The irony is states that are not sunny all year around like Mass have more solar panels. This rational I just don't understand.

In Florida, I was called a socialist because I am from the northeast. This was strange because majority of Northerners own homes in Florida. I am progressive and want to live in a first world country. 


Robert

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Posts: 114
Reply with quote  #27 
I think New York State is a leader on climate change. It has been part of the northeastern Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI), the cap and trade program for limiting greenhouse gas emissions. This program could serve as a model program for the rest of the country as well as the world. It is being reviewed to see how it can be improved. Also, NYC is a leader among cities on reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It probably has the most comprehensive climate action plan and climate adaptation plan in the country. New York State is using it as the model for its climate adaptation plan. In fact, NYC city is probably the greenest city in the country. The emissions per capita is only about 8 tons per year of CO2 I believe. That's European levels. Contrast that with about 20 tons per year for the US as a whole and a whopping 30 tons per year for Texas. I think you are in the right place. Maybe you are just not meeting the right people.
barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #28 
I agree NY is leading but still there needs to be more work that has to be done.
We can't say yes we got to great lengths and stop here. We should be 100% green we seem to be either 60 or 70%  which is still a Hugh accomplishment and still lead the nation which is excellent. However, we should never be satisfied with just doing enough. NY has the go getter spirit we need to be 100% or nothing that is my view.


Craig

ddd

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Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #29 
No Diff, Yes, I have to say you have a right to be weary about Rocky and I think it is great plus he is ambitious but can he really stop the campaign financing. Can he really put a stop to the greed in politics or will be succumb to it like the rest and allow himself to be bought and sold? Politics should never be bought and sold like a stock on the stock market.





barefootalways

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Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #30 
We should also be at a level in NY where everyone will have solar panels at a reduced price along with something California is doing using recycled rain water to heat their homes. I saw that on the create channel.



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