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Posts: 114
Reply with quote  #31 
A lot of people should be doing a lot of things but without a carbon tax or a cap on carbon it's not going to happen. There has to be a price for CO2 pollution to make the transition we need. That alone will not be sufficient but to change behavior the price of polluting has to be factored into fossil fuel burning. Unfortunately, environmentalists have been arguing over which is better, cap and trade or a carbon tax. As if we didn't have enough disagreements. From what I know it appears the world is largely favoring cap and trade although there are some places that have passed a carbon tax. I think what is needed is a science-based legally binding cap and trade agreement which includes all countries that are significant polluters. If we can get that before 2017 we should go out and celebrate.
barefooting west coast

Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #32 
I agree, In the west coast , we do have a good progressive bunch of politicians who are so adamant about the environment. Oregon is a state that is very green. Oregon is always working hard to be the leader

Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #33 
No Difference brings up some great points. I was thinking along the same lines - basically, how will this be different from the other times? Let's just look at the Republican primaries, which are an excellent example of what a media blackout can do to a candidate. Gary Johnson and Buddy Roemer are too candidates that have a decent resumes and are government outsiders - the kind people supposedly want. Yet almost no one knows about them because they've been entirely ignored by the media, and don't have the kind of cash candidates that sellout do.

As a third party you won't just be going up against this, you'll also be struggling with the "spoiler" effect. People that prefer Obama or Romney, and that will be many people, will be upset if they think you are drawing off votes. It doesn't matter if you are or not, but even if they suspect that it's possible, they'll start viewing you as "the enemy." (I myself have received a lot of anger during past campaigns, so I know what you're facing, barefooting)

Even if you are able to overcome these problems, and get a decent showing, like Ross Perot in 1992, the two parties might very well keep you out of the debates next time, like they did to Perot in 1996. Keep in mind that the debates are controlled by the two parties. This will make it very hard to get people to pay attention to you.

And then there's always the possibility of outsiders taking your party, like what happened to the Reform Party in 2000 or the Green Party in 2004. Once you spend years making a solid foundation, people with money and name power can swoop in and take over.

This isn't to say don't try. I think we all realize that there are no leaders out there who will save us, and that people themselves have to find a way to do that. But as No Difference said, we should have an honest conversation about these things if we hope to have any success.

Posts: 89
Reply with quote  #34 
Good input Chathamization.   
Something I think this Party needs to address now, while it's still early
is self policing.  To keep people who don't believe in our Party's ideals from using us as a 
platform. And to keep corruption out.  We may not be able to get corruption out of Washington
but if we keep corruption out of the Party that takes over Washington then we have a win.

Now we have to balance keeping jackasses out while allowing differing views within. We are
new. So lets get this stuff sorted now.

Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #35 
Josh, your so right, we need to weed out those who will be against us. Either a person is for us or against us.

I for one see some haters on here posting from nonmembers. They have the right to say what they feel. If you don't like us or respect us then we have a problem.
All of you are my friends.

I always wondered if there are spy's such as Dems or Repubs coming to our site and using our platform ideas because they are weak or stale and can't come up with new ideas.

Let do our part in all states.

Bless you all my friends.


Queens, NYC

quote of the day

"Lead with dignity and respect will follow"


Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #36 
  • Repeal DOMA
  • Repeal NAFTA
  • Revise PBABA
  • Make Citizen's United unconstitutional
  • End tax breaks that reward companies for shipping jobs overseas
  • End factory farming
  • Audit the federal reserve
  • Break up businesses that are too big to fail
  • End property taxes funding public schools
  • Make tax system more progressive

A good way to get coverage would be for the Fairness Doctrine to be reinstated. Many progressive talk shows like TYT and Thom Hartmann talk about Rocky, and it probably would increase if we had more people doing it.

"The legitimacy of a state rests upon its claim to do justice"- ALAN RYAN

"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can- GEORGE BERNARD SHAW

Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #37 
Lexikon. Good points and especially repeal NAFTA, DOMA, and the free trade agreement crap. People are losing their jobs.

Another point which I never discussed is Technology. Too much Technology can be a ruination to society. I refuse to use Facebook or other silly technology.  It can help for some things, however,what is to much. Is it when  hese technologies take every single job away? we have to stop destroying humanity. A human brain should never be wasted. Humanity can't even do anything without a machine or technology. People can't count change in store, can't think, and more. I see this everyday. These sick corporations want us to be robots. I brought this up in graduate school.

We can't forget what I believe is the most important is civil liberties(Human Rights)

 Lexikon, look at my posts what I am fighting for?




Queens, NYC


Posts: 139
Reply with quote  #38 
"Life is worth living, if we nitpick at everything we will die of fear before we accomplish anything in life".

Reply with quote  #39 
Bogus!!!! there is more nonsense in your website. What kind of movement do you all think your trying to accomplish!!!!!!!!!! Do not pull the wool over my eyes... This is a scam. How can this  party or your man you claim is God and is so perfect!!!!!!!!Rocky Anderson make a difference?

Romney will win all the way

I just don't get what he will do. He is a politician like any other out for his own greed.

Please do me a favor? do not sell me your junk!! You are a naive group of yuppies.

Reply with quote  #40 
And you're an asshole.
Reply with quote  #41 
your right this guy is a dirtbag.  It is so sad our country is in dire straights and people are still supporting the ones who are destructive!! beyond me
Ben Eastwood

Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #42 
I for one am working to build the party in VT beyond this race, and at a local state level.  The Progressive party has major party status in Vermont, but no national presence, so while I could focus probably easier and more effectively on the state level with the progs, the lack of national focus is a concern.  I believe that the JP is a more fertile ground to grow a successful party.  We can take some lessons from the parties that have struggled to get a toe hold for decades, and from the ones that took off in one election cycle.  Yes, we'll need to have support on all levels, and that is something we'll all have to work towards.  Due to Vermont law, I cannot start the JP this year.  However I am working to get Rocky on the ballot as an independent "Justice Party" candidate.  While I am gathering signatures for rocky, I'll also be gathering signatures for another independent "justice party" candidate, that will be running for either state rep or state senate, and that will announce their campaign once the ballots are in.  In VT it only takes 50 signatures and a couple thousand votes to get elected.  Vermont is lucky in that we are a less party oriented state and care more about the candidate and issues, and we respond better to free face to face, shake the hand and meet the candidate exposure than the expensive corporate bought kind, but we're special   I am reasonably confident that there will be a JP state rep next session in VT.

We came, we saw, we gathered signatures, we sued, we gathered signatures, we got Rocky on the Ballot in Vermont. That was the easy part, now we have to get this Justice Party Started!

Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #43 
I hope goals include the war on poverty with the living wage and Universal income, with reduced fulltime hours.
The Party of European Socialist (In opposition), when re-electd to the EU parliament, is introducing a Universal Income for 53 Million Unemployed youths due to the lack of part time jobs. If we can only have a UI for all here, let alone National Health Insurance.
No Difference

Posts: 155
Reply with quote  #44 
Well, the big election is over now.  So I have to ask where this group is at now.  Are we still here?  Some folks have posted since I last checked in, and I'd like to address them. 

I am ready now, not to help get Rocky Anderson elected in 2012, but to help build a party that can get start getting local officials elected now, and start building the house that can get Rocky or someone with similar aims elected to the POTUS someday later on.  That is, if anyone here is still interested.

JoshuaBudden wrote:

Something I think this Party needs to address now, while it's still early is self policing.  To keep people who don't believe in our Party's ideals from using us as a platform...

Now we have to balance keeping jackasses out while allowing differing views within. We are new. So lets get this stuff sorted now.

I agree, but I hope you don't feel I am one of the jackasses!  I know I am baldly cynical and uncomfortably blunt, but think of it is a cold reality check, not vicarious criticism.

I think the best way to keep people who don't believe in our ideals from using our hard work as a their platform is to protect it starting at the lowest levels on upward.  But this takes ongoing maintenance; see my remarks to ddd below.

In response to another post in this thread, ddd wrote:
I have to say you have a right to be weary about Rocky...

ddd, I never stated that I was never "weary" (did you mean "wary?") of Rocky Anderson, or even of the JP.  This candidate and this party sounds like a serious and decent group.  What I am wary of, specifically, are any attempts that start with a big-kapow presidential run, skipping building up the very necessary rudiments of political power.  Having local parties not only to run candidates locally but also to support statewide and federal elections.  To me, this seems to best be done from the municipal level upward.  

I keep seeing this top-down approach, and it fails every time (unless someone here can point me to an exception).  I think the strategy is something like, score a huge (presidential) win, then let candidates running for lower offices kind of ride the coattails of that huge win.  Never mind that huge win is unlikely; my opinion is that the strategy is unlikely to work either.

I think of this structure similarly to the way a building is constructed.  We don't start by building the roof (although we might have that part architected well ahead of time), but rather with the foundation.  Once that foundation is set, we proceed to build the first floor, the second, and so on.  Finally, we literally top it off with our roof.

Building state and local parties specifically for, and really only for, a presidential run is a bit like constructing scaffolding for the building just long enough to erect the roof, and then walking away hoping the roof will continue to hold up by itself, even as the partially completed lower construction withers as election junkies wander away.

To Joshua, I would like to add that ensuring that the superstructure is solid and complete at all times will help keep us insulated from people coming to usurp us.  It will be hard to get past the door if we have a never-ending party going on inside.  Assuming we are not all drunk off our asses from our wins, we will be alert for strangers dragging in bad ideas from outside.   That is, there will be a house culture that will be difficult if not impossible to undermine.  (That house culture should be open to considering new ideas, though.  And promptly expelling them if they conflict with our goals.)

Teak wrote:

I hope goals include the war on poverty with the living wage and Universal income, with reduced fulltime hours.
The Party of European Socialist (In opposition), when re-electd to the EU parliament, is introducing a Universal Income for 53 Million Unemployed youths due to the lack of part time jobs. If we can only have a UI for all here, let alone National Health Insurance.

It is rather ironic that I've been spending most of my time the past few weeks (and actually over the past several years on and off) studying the theory of Social Credit and its notion of a National Dividend, which I believe is similar to your idea of a Universal Income.  This idea is about 90 years old, first introduced by Clifford Douglas (not to be confused with Saskatchewan's Tommy Douglas), who helped to launch the Alberta Social Credit Party.  (We might like to discuss Social Credit, but in a separate thread please.)


Well, those are my thoughts for now.  I'd love to continue this conversation, particularly with the previous participants!   (I miss this.)

Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
No Difference

Posts: 155
Reply with quote  #45 
Ben Eastwood said:
Don't talk to me about party triviality until your state has achieved ballot access. There is not higher priority for a party than achieving ballot access and getting their candidates elected. I would rather see Rocky on a state with no other party structure atm, then a state that fails to get Rocky on the ballot but builds a perfect, but empty party.

I must differ.  My experience, having worked on several ballot access campaigns for the GP, is that these are inherently doomed.  The state Green Parties fail to put any emphasis on even legislative races, let alone Congressional races, even though they are fully equipped to do so once they have ballot access.  Worse yet, is that those parties have nothing to offer the public when they are not running any candidates.  That is, unless you insist on telling the public that the Presidential race is the only important race in this country, which clearly it is not.  It is certainly the most powerful, but it is hardly the most important.

Congress makes the laws and votes SCOTUS nominees in.  And it is a check (in theory) on the power of the POTUS.  It does not matter if the American public accidentally elects Stalin for President as long as there is a way to vote for sane candidates for Congress; bad presidential decisions can be overridden given strong enough Congressional political will.  And, no, I do not want a lone ruler in the Oval Office relying solely on issuing Executive Orders to carry out this or any other party's objectives.  That is too much power for one person, and that is why the system is designed as it is (even if our real and existing Congress is nearly useless).   I'm sorry that I must so strongly disagree with you; I would not like to see this or any other alternative party heading in that ill-advised direction.

If Rocky reads this, I hope he will understand that I have no qualms with him insofar as his expertise, knowledge, or any other aspect of his political know-how.  But I feel it is too early for this or any other party I would care to be involved with to even consider a presidential run.  Let's populate our city councils and school boards with dedicated individuals who care about JP principles.  We can then cull candidates for higher offices at the state level from the best of those people once they have demonstrated integrity and loyalty to these ideals AND AND AND (emph. added) we have REPLACED those candidates with equally capable people for the positions vacated -- otherwise we leave behind a gutted foundation for the party structure.

Obviously, this is NOT easy to do.  Opposition candidates will always be ready to weaken our foundations by running misleading campaigns for those seats.  But that is why we need STRATEGY, and tactics that will support that strategy.   But what we don't need are dreams of greatness and delusional notions that one person alone can run this country without any substantial political base at lower levels of government.  It would be tragic.

Cooperation, coordination, and clarity are essential to creating a political party based on equality. Cliches and equivocations will not move this or any other party forward.
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